Jack
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1,500 votesJack
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An error occurred while saving the comment Jack
commented
It seems intuitively like this would be very important feature for monitoring compromised accounts, but analytically I do not understand why and I do not see an advantage of additionally monitoring for compromised account login credentials by independently monitoring for compromised passwords.
So overall, I'm not sure, but erring on the side of caution and employing the additional method of monitoring for compromised account login credentials by independently monitoring for compromised passwords to cover unknown cases seems prudent.
But all of this said, it seems how beneficial implementing this feature request would potentially be can only be determined through checking some assumptions...
So in the form of questions that come to mind, if I may ask, and maybe other users and/or Proton staff have informed answers and/or other questions :
1.) Are there cases in which an account stored in the password manager for a given website or whatever can be determined to have known fully or partially compromised set of login credentials (i.e. both username/email and password, or only password), therefore calling for user action to change the login's password (and ideally also change the unique username/email too, and also ideally marking the issue as resolved in either case) only by directly searching for each account's password in the databases and other dark web-related places like forums used by these monitoring tools?
2.) If the answer to #1 is 'Yes', then:
If the user follows the standard security practice password managers instruct users to perform--generate a unique password and unique email address and/or unique username for each unique account then is the answer to #1 still a 'Yes' ?3.) If the answer to #2 is 'No', then it seems that this feature request is more of a request to implement a feature accommodating using the product in a manner diverging a bit from how it is intended...so that might need to addressed in the process of evaluating this request...and hopefully there could be sharing of the developers' and designers' considerations.
Personally, I can see cases in which the user might not be able to reasonably/practically follow to a strict extent the directed or recommended practice of generating a unique password for every account, or generating both a unique password, username, and email address for every account.
This is especially the case for logins created/updated before starting to use a password manager, and/or beginning to implement this practice, because it takes a lot time and energy to change all of the logins to accounts, especially in the beginning.
I can understand from the developer's view, how there has to be some sort of baseline reasonably assumed or expected manner of use of the product. I just hope that if this possibility were at all relevant here, that the burden is not put on the user to such an extreme extent considering the realities how much effort the user already has to put into switching to and adopting new product for everyday and broad use.
But #3 may not be a consideration here if the answer to #2 is 'Yes'...
4.) Last question is related to any possible security considerations:
Is there a way of the performing routine searches of the passwords of the logins stored in Proton Pass in the external sources of information that would be involved in this requested monitoring without any compromise on the level/quality of the existing data security practices in place used protect the passwords stored in Proton Pass?
(I'm guessing it's a negligible risk in the worst case scenario, since Google passwords and 1Password are said to have this requested feature, but that's an assumption for which I have no basis)
And if some degree of compromise/risk is required, how significant is it, and can the user be informed of it with enough understanding to let them decide whether or not the benefits would outweigh the risks/costs for them, in optionally using this requested feature?
Thanks. Would be nice to hear back from Proton and/or anyone with relevant backgrounds on any or all of the above...
:)
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1,691 votesJack
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2,312 votesJack
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TLDR, hopefully this clears it up::
*** This request Defeats the very purpose of why Proton Authenticator MFA app even EXISTS in the first place in addition to Proton Pass. ***
TLDR:
*** Proton Pass already offers this requested "seamless" integration of autofillable password management and autofillable MFA codes in a single app ***
*** Proton Authenticator MFA app is designed to be used as a Very Deliberately Totally Separate app for MFA codes while NOT AT ALL using Proton Pass' or any other password manager's ability to generate and autofill MFA codes ***
So, Bottom Line is, by what's on Proton's website:
A.) If you want "seamless" autofilled login credentials + autofilled MFA codes in 1 app, just use Proton Pass app for both, as that's what it is designed for.
OR
B.) If you want some additional security against less common complex attacks, you gain that extra security by *Deliberately* choosing a little less convenient solution of a Deliberately separated MFA codes app from a password management app:
* use the Proton Authenticator app that is Deliberately Separate/Deliberately Not-connected-to-a-password manager for MFA codes, and manually type them in to use them
* while also using Proton Pass or other password manager for usernames and passwords credentials and autofilling them, while DELIBERATELY NOT using Proton Pass' ability to also generate and autofill MFA codes
NOTE:
Use Proton Authenticator app for your Proton account's MFA code, even if you choose to use Proton Pass for MFA codes with all your other accounts
https://proton.me/support/pass-2fa#:~:text=Please%20note%20that%20you%20should%20never%20use%20Proton%20Pass%20to%20secure%20your%20Proton%20Account%20using%20TOTP.%20Use%20a%20third%2Dparty%20authenticator%20app%20instead.
MORE:
* "Proton Pass or Authenticator? Choose the right 2FA for you
No one understands your online habits or security needs better than you — that’s why we give you the power to choose how to secure your accounts. We created Proton Authenticator even though Proton Pass already has a built-in 2FA authenticator feature so that you can choose a tool that works for you, regardless of your threat model.
For convenience: Proton Pass lets you autofill your 2FA codes with your passwords, making logins faster and easier.
For advanced security: Proton Authenticator generates your 2FA codes in a separate, end-to-end encrypted app. This adds an extra layer of security and protects against sophisticated attacks. It also gives you a standalone app you can use to set up 2FA for your Proton Account."
https://proton.me/blog/authenticator-app
* "I love Proton Pass, but I want a separate app for my 2FA codes"
While Proton Pass offers a built-in 2FA authenticator, using a separate secure authenticator app provides an extra layer of defense against sophisticated attacks.
https://proton.me/authenticator/security
* "How is this different from Proton Pass?
Proton Pass is a password manager designed to securely generate and store strong passwords, and protect your digital identity with features like email alises and dark web monitoring. It also includes an integrated authenticator that can store and autofill 2FA codes - but not the ones used to log in to your Proton account. Proton Authenticator is a standalone 2FA app that allows users to enable 2FA protection for their Proton account, it also allows users to store their 2FA codes separate from their passwords if they wish to do so."
https://proton.me/authenticator
ALSO:
* Proton could do a little bit better job explaining all of this in the App Store description. Most people aren't going to go to an app's website, but they willl sometimes feature request in areas where there's ambiguity.